Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submitlogin

WPE is the most profitable business in the WordPress space, and they haven't changed a single line of code in WordPress or so much as contributed a dime. So if you're eager to volunteer to be their free labor, be my guest.


That is absolutely and factually incorrect.

Several of the most popular plugins are maintained by WPEngine.

WPEngine donates/sponsors hundreds of thousands of dollars a year to WordPress community events. Indeed, the convention where Matt went "nuclear" was sponsored by WPE to the tune of $75,000 (and despite these all being supposedly independent entities, somehow WPE was banned from attending by the Foundation. No refund, though).

> So if you're eager to volunteer to be their free labor, be my guest.

Matt is demanding that WPE provide his for-profit company, Automattic, free labor, to be directed as Automattic see fit. Not the Foundation, not the open source project.


I bet you those are sales / networking events and a WordPress software developer wasn't invited to a single one.


You'd be entirely wrong, then. That event was WordCamp, "the largest annual gathering in the U.S. of WordPress users", an event started by Matt Mullenweg:

> WordCamps come in all different flavors, based on the local communities that produce them, but in general, WordCamps include sessions on how to use WordPress more effectively, beginning plugin and theme development, advanced techniques, security, etc. To get an idea of the types of sessions typically seen at WordCamps, check out the WordCamp channel at WordPress.tv.


Maybe I'm missing something here, but isn't Wordpress open source? WPE is under no obligation to contribute source code or money. If WP is unhappy with the outcome, they should have released their product under a different license.


I'd argue there is a moral obligation to support open source projects if you rely on them as a cornerstone of your business. However it's not a legal one.

Open source is based on idealistic and community based mindset and modern tech is now based around extracting the dollars. The two aren't really compatible and it's really quite sad to see.

That being said this the most stupid way to go about it.


I'd argue there is an even greater moral obligation to honor what your contracts say and don't say, and thus keep your word. Doing what you say is pretty key to the concept of integrity, which outweighs Matt's driving desire for more money.

The moral obligation to not screw over a million innocent users also outweighs Matt's driving desire for more money.


I agree. If Matt was smart, he would have spent the last ten years maintaining his advantage rather than ignoring the problem. Now that he's backed into a corner and forced to get real nasty to survive, I can't believe how much tech people are falling over themselves to shill for the slimy salesman organization. Only tech is like this. Folks like union workers would lay down their lives before crossing a picket line. But the concept of solidarity is completely lost on tech workers. No one turns against their own like us.


How would you feel about Google if they used things like Linux and never contributed anything to open source? As the most profitable entity in the WordPress space, WPE has a duty to give something back. What Matt is asking for isn't unreasonable.


When Google contribute to open source, they often do it to scratch their own itch. That's how most open source organizations works. What Automattic wants from WPE as laid outs in their term sheet is to dictate what WPE contributes and audit their accounting. Not exactly on the same playing field as other corporate contributions to open source projects. Not to mention the non-forking clause.

Maybe setting up a proper independent governance of the WordPress project would encourage more independent contributions.


That’s the point of the license WordPress is developed under - WPE, in fact, does not have a duty to give anything back.


I would hope Google would help out, but I would also realize that it's ultimately their own choice if the license allows them to use it without donating time/money.


I wouldn’t mind because that’s what Linux agreed to when they chose the GPL route.


WP.org should add this to their license then:

>"it's free but only until the project owners deem you too successful and then you'll have to pay 8% of your revenues to support the project".

https://world.hey.com/dhh/automattic-is-doing-open-source-di...


I am very erratic on agreement with DHH's screeds, but this one hits the mark.

Among all the more visible issues with this whole situation, he calls out a few things that I think need more awareness:

1. Matt decries Private Equity as leeches and freeloaders on free software, open source, and their community.

2. Automattic invested in WPE in the early days. In fact, Silver Lake, the PE firm that owns WPE, bought Automattic's share! Automattic sold to PE.

3. The WP Foundation has three members, two of whom show any sign of activity: Matt himself, and another person that Matt personally appointed who is... drum roll... the Managing Partner of a Private Equity firm.

Somewhat ironic for someone who shit talks their competitors and Private Equity so vocally.


How we feel matters not, the license does. Before and after Google there is Linux. Same for Matt and this CMS lineage


Of course it is unreasonable.

He chose to use an open source license and benefit from all that open source entails.

You can’t turn around and ignore the terms of the license just because it doesn’t suit you.


Wordpress itself is a fork, so they had to keep the license


Yeah, that's unfortunate, but... how many companies contribute back to Next? React? Node? PHP? Postgres? Linux?

They don't get secretly blackmailed and publicly shamed for failure to do so. There are a lot of other WP hosts too (Pantheon, Cloudways, etc.) and they also don't get this same treatment, unless they all silently paid up and we just didn't know...?

Sure, there's a gentleman's understanding that companies with resources should contribute back to the projects they use, but it's not a hard and fast moral or legal code.

It's disturbing and frankly terrifying for all downstream WordPress companies and users for Matt to blow this so out of proportion to the actual crime of "failing to contribute back to open source", which so many of us are guilty of every single day.


Down with rent-seeking!

If a 'company' is just digital landlordism it's not surprising makers don't want to subsidize your free ride...




Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: