The article points out that children have been relatively safe from COVID, which is true. The article doesn’t really cite much data to support its case. The studies it cites show a positive benefit to masking that it fails to counter. What it also completely ignores is that the masks are mainly to protect teachers and the children’s older guardians and care takers. I’m tired of anti-maskers.
Children are safe from having debilitating symptoms due to COVID. I think it's worth being precise with language because the shorthand has been confusing for many people and used as a bludgeon in the reopening-schools-debate. But of course the real issue is children getting COVID from family, bringing it to school, spreading it to other kids who then give it to other parents. I have not seen analyses which attempt to quantify the effect of closing schools while taking this into account, but I'm sure they're out there.
Also spreading it to their teachers, who are usually adults and who usually don't want to get deadly diseases and may not be willing to work without some precautions going towards their safety.
Humanity has never stopped the spread of similar coronaviruses and even if we could the death rate/risk is not bad enough to justify the cost (this isnt smallpox/polio)
We have vaccines. They don’t stop you from getting it or transmitting it. They do lower probability of the vaccinated person getting severe/fatal covid. Clearly a personal health decision that should not be mandated (although I would encourage it)
Mask are of marginal help.
Mandates dont change actual behavior.
Life goes on. (Me: triple vaxxed and have had Covid 2x)
Not interested in playing word games. Words mean things. Get over it.
> [Vaccines] don’t stop you from getting [COVID] or transmitting it.
This is a harmful framing. What ultimately matters is Rt < 1. Do vaccines get us closer to that? Yes. Does not breathing on each other help with that? Yes. Does avoiding indoor gatherings prevent us from breathing on each other? Yes. Do masks and adequate ventilation help us reduce the amount of exposure when contact is unavoidable? Yes. Ergo each of these factors contributes to reducing the reproduction rate of the virus when applied. Wow, the power of simple logical deductions. Try it sometime.
Deliberately obfuscating truths by painting a false dichotomy is misinformation.
Life doesn't go on for the multitudes of preventable deaths that have occurred and will occur because people like you continue to push false narratives.
> Ok so now what? We lock down society for a relatively benign virus
Awwww, you made that little straw man just for me?! You're too kind...
(Your first mistake is acting like there's only two sides to this, and because I advocate taking more care, then you think I unflinchingly parrot the CDC and other hysterical bullshit. Not so :)!)
> still got covid 2x
Were there things you could have done differently not to catch it? Probably! In the spirit of "let everyone do what they want" then it follows directly that you agentively chose to put yourself in a position to catch and spread COVID. This is the main issue with libertarian-style arguments -- you accept full culpability if everything else is framed through the lens of agency.
Endemicity as you correctly point out is with relation to a particular population or region. That means more care needs to be put in to assigning particular viruses that status. HIV is not endemic to the US (it is in West Africa), neither is malaria (ditto but wider range) nor apparently COVID (of course, not yet, but the outcome is inevitable only if you act like it is).
> Why is this cause special
Because there's a lot of built-up infrastructure and society-wide attention on the problem, given the last couple years, which gives us a lot more leverage for having a strong effect on the outcome compared to something like a particular flu or rhinovirus. It's special because we're talking about this disease right now and not a different one. Seems obvious to me, but if ignoring reality makes you more comfortable then by all means. Just don't make your mistakes other peoples' problems.
Nothing you are saying is justification for mandates.
Im not a libertarian. My city is world famously liberal and highly vaxxed. I follow all mandates (mostly to not upset people) and have been more cautious than most due to immunocompromised family.
I just dont think we should have “get vaccinated or lose your job” style mandates for vaccines with high individual but marginal communal benefit. Its a bad precedent and furthers politicization.
Also mask mandates are never done sufficiently to be meaningful. The mandates that exist aren’t stringent enough now to be impactful and are ignored anyways.
> Life goes on. (Me: triple vaxxed and have had Covid 2x)
I can't agree with a lot of what you are posting here, but this totally got my attention.
You've had all your shots, and had covid twice so far? Can you say more about that? How bad was it for you?
My daughter had a mild case, weeks after 2nd vaccination, when she returned to college last Fall. She was ok.
I think that if everyone could do what you've done, we'd be able to figure out if we're at a modern influenza situation already. But the crush in the hospitals is real. We're not there yet.
Sure, first round was 2020 and pre-vaccines but positive PCR (had recently had surgery and needed negative PCRs to go the physical therapy) It was just a sore throat and some heavy fatigues. Symptoms for about 3 days but no cough, loss of taste, or fever.
Second round was omicron in December shortly after being boosted. Symptoms of cough, fatigue, and shortness of breath. Much more sever symptoms the second time but only for about 3 days. Also
had contracted bronchitis right before so that probably contributed. Note: with the cold that lead to bronchitis I was nervous it was Covid so rapid tested 5x over 3 weeks. All came back negative, including 2 that came back right before and after a positive PCR. Anecdotally I have strong doubts on rapid test efficacy with Omicron (friends had similar experiences)
Some of my folks live on a Native American reservation. They lost lots of people, at first. It burned real hard.
The more I learn, the more confused I get.
Immunology is complicated. Public policy plus community building plus immunology... makes my career in software development look like a kid playing in a sandbox.
I mean most experts agree that it is (or will be), soooo yeah you should probably accept that and figure out how to live your life accordingly, maybe just don't go into public policy making though.
The problem with this argument is the slipperiness of the slope. So we shouldn't try to enforce gun laws either, eh?
You're either going to have to be more specific, or concede that we live in a society where individual actions have consequences that influence others.
We have vaccines, but they dont stop transmission or contagion.
If they did, a vaccine mandate to protect others would make sense. However, since they dont getting/not getting the vaccine mostly impacts the individual it is odd that we have vaccine mandates.
I am not sure this has been proven but assuming it is true would you be comfortable with taking this kind of marginal benefit as justification for mandates along the lines of “get the vaccination or you are fired?” What about in other areas?
Attending a protest is attending a spreading event which impacts others for example.
